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Flag on the Moon. How did it get there? - The online computery journal thingy of a turtle

Sep. 4th, 2008

06:44 pm - Flag on the Moon. How did it get there?

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Y'know who's an idiot?

Moon-landing-hoax conspiracy theorists are an idiot.

Last week, Mythbusters took on the contingent of crackpots who claim we never went to the Moon and that all the famous footage of Neil, Buzz & co. bounding about on the Moon's dusty grey surface was filmed in a soundstage.

One of my favorite parts was when Tory, Kari and Grant busted the myth that the flag can be seen waving because wind is blowing on it, which means it wasn't filmed on the airless Moon. The Mythbusters team went to NASA and set up a flag in a vacuum chamber. First they waved it about in the air; the flag wafted gently back and forth and soon came to a stop. Then they sucked out the air and waved it around in a vacuum. This time it flapped all over the place, like a swinging chain! Myth busted!

And just today it occurred to me: The crackpots claim the flag was blown around by wind. But they also claim it was filmed on a soundstage. WHERE, THEN, WOULD THE WIND BE COMING FROM, if they were filming inside a BUILDING? Building interiors don't tend to be plagued by nor'easters and Santa Anas. Maybe someone turned on an air conditioner and the fan was pointing at the flag. But if you were a film director tasked with faking the planting of the flag on an airless lunar surface, wouldn't you make sure to turn off the air blower first? In fact, wouldn't you even make sure not to have any wind machines on the premises at all?

Clearly, moon-landing-hoax conspiracy theorists are an idiot who assumes that everybody else is as much of an idiot as they is.

Comments:

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From:baphnedia
Date:September 5th, 2008 12:06 am (UTC)
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I'm just waiting for the reptiles-running-the-world conspiracy theory to go onto Mythbusters next.. you did see the RFID credit card "We got Cockblocked by credit card companies" presentation, right?
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From:kinkyturtle
Date:September 5th, 2008 12:17 am (UTC)
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Are those the people who see "V" lizard-man-style scales and slitted pupils in every JPEG and MPEG artifact?

No, I haven't seen this thing you speak of. Qu'est-ce que c'est?
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From:penh
Date:September 5th, 2008 12:10 am (UTC)
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The one comment I heard from an actual conspiracy theorist was that someone opened a door on the soundstage, letting in a wind that blew the flag around. Because when you're perpetrating the greatest hoax in human history, why would you take silly precautions like guarding the soundstage door or actually looking at your footage to spot problems? This is all excellent support for one of my theories, which is that a lot of people are incredibly stupid.

Pictures of the moon. Secret data.
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From:kinkyturtle
Date:September 5th, 2008 12:20 am (UTC)
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Or even just SHOOTING A SECOND TAKE!

Your theory is sound, and there is a great deal of evidence supporting it. A huuuuge pile of evidence. If the world ran out of water, but you could drink evidence that a lot of people are incredibly stupid, you'd be in no danger of ever suffering dehydration.
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From:growf
Date:September 5th, 2008 12:17 am (UTC)
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I was intrigued that MythBusters didn't, during the "two light sources" discussion, mention that the albedo of the Earth is more than three times that of the moon.

Is it genuinely not relevant?
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From:kinkyturtle
Date:September 5th, 2008 12:28 am (UTC)
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I don't think so, because the important point is that the albedo of the moon is not zero.
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From:postrodent
Date:September 5th, 2008 12:18 am (UTC)
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How good are "prosumer" telescopes these days? It seems to me that it should at some point become pig-easy to prove or disprove the moon landings just by seeing the huge amount of LEM lower stages, moon rovers, and other general crap we left up there. There would also be fans of tire tracks radiating out from the landing sites.

Anyway, I think the "no moon landing" people are morons. Of _course_ we went to the goddamn moon. Where else would we put the "dead man's hand" nuclear launch complexes to devastate the Soviet Union in case our ICBM forces were knocked out by a first strike?
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From:kinkyturtle
Date:September 5th, 2008 12:27 am (UTC)
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It's also such a joyless no-fun-at-all wet-blanket theory. The existence of Santa Claus, dragons, unicorns, perpetual-motion machines, those are beliefs you can get some fun out of. Even the Bible, nasty as it is, at least has some drama to it. But saying we never went to the moon? That's like... claiming there's no such thing as ice cream! Who wants to believe *that*?
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From:nefaria
Date:September 5th, 2008 12:18 am (UTC)
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Scientists still bounce signals off the lunar landers from time to time.

Anyway, you can prove that any historic event was a hoax! Whenever someone presents evidence that discredits your assertion, just accuse them of being part of the conspiracy.
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From:kinkyturtle
Date:September 5th, 2008 12:23 am (UTC)
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They did that on the show! Adam and Jamie visited an observatory, where a scientist pulsed a green laser beam at the moon for them.

And yeah, there's just no shaking unshakable faith in any belief, no matter how crazy.
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From:growly
Date:September 5th, 2008 12:37 am (UTC)
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Granted, we already KNEW these people were dumbfucks. This only proves just HOW dumb. :D
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From:kinkyturtle
Date:September 5th, 2008 12:41 am (UTC)
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It's like those people who think crop circles prove the existence of aliens, and their argument boils down to: "I can't think of any way for mere humans such as myself to make crop circles, therefore it MUST be aliens!" Yeah, it certainly couldn't be that there are pranksters out there who are smarter and more resourceful than you, Sparky. :}
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From:michaelmink
Date:September 5th, 2008 01:06 am (UTC)
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Honestly, some people should have their copies of "Capricorn One" taken away from them.
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From:jugularjaguar
Date:September 5th, 2008 08:35 pm (UTC)

Capricorn One

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That was a documentary right??
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From:yakko
Date:September 5th, 2008 02:20 am (UTC)
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There's a website (whose URL I don't have handy) that dispelled most of the misconceptions the hoaxers relied on to support their view. After seeing the whole thing explained to the point where even I could reproduce the results, I considered the case closed.
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From:kinkyturtle
Date:September 5th, 2008 05:44 am (UTC)
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You mean Bad Astronomy (which seems to have moved to http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/ )?
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From:vermillionfox
Date:September 5th, 2008 03:54 am (UTC)
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Then there are those who believe we have been to the moon several times, but the '69 televised one was staged just to upstage Russia and help in the Cold War. They feel America was upset over Russian advances in space and to show our dominance, staged the original landing and then a couple months later finished up the tech and did manned space missions just the same.

Me though, either way I know three things:

*Man has been to the moon plenty of times.
*Anytime the US government is involved, we will never know the 100% true story, however seeing as man has been to the moon since '69 it is best to err on the side of the argument the original landing.
*Never tell Neil Armstrong it was fake. He swings a hefty fist for his age http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dcoyiJdeWT4 .

So instead I will spend my time worrying about more important things such as the Tang monopoly and the evils within their lair.
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From:kinkyturtle
Date:September 5th, 2008 05:42 am (UTC)
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That's Buzz Aldrin, actually, and though I normally oppose violence, I'd say Bart Sibrel got what he richly deserved there.
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From:orv
Date:September 5th, 2008 06:18 am (UTC)
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Haven't seen the episode, but my favorite conspiracy theories are the ones having to do with photographs. Like the claim that the photographs are faked because you can't see stars in the background. That one always makes me wonder two things:
- Have the people who put this theory forward ever taken a photo in their lives? If so, why do they not understand the concept of dim objects not showing up in a short exposure?
- Let's say you *were* faking the moon landing, and you determined stars would show up in a photo. Wouldn't you have the budget to go get a black curtain and some Christmas tree lights?

Another fun one is the claim that the photos from the moon are obviously faked because they're all too perfectly framed. I'm imagining that these people's family photo albums contain every single snapshot, even the ones where someone's thumb was over the lens.
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From:kinkyturtle
Date:September 5th, 2008 06:47 am (UTC)
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Yup! Here are all the arguments, handily debunked, on one convenient page: http://www.badastronomy.com/bad/tv/foxapollo.html
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From:kinkyturtle
Date:September 5th, 2008 08:54 am (UTC)
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The Time Cube site is total gonzo craziness.

It's not a danger the way moon-hoax theorizing is, though, because it's too incoherent to be taken seriously by anyone (anyone who can dress and feed themselves, anyway). :}
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From:aatheus
Date:September 5th, 2008 03:34 pm (UTC)
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OMG KT and Mythbusters are in on the hoax!!!!1!one
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From:kinkyturtle
Date:September 5th, 2008 08:06 pm (UTC)
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HOW DID YOU KN We are NOT!!!
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From:jon_helfrich
Date:September 5th, 2008 11:15 pm (UTC)
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Okay, here's my two cents to add...

Conspiracy debunking portal
Touches on other fun conspiracies (Face on Mars, Flat Earth, Hollow Earth, Tacmars and Chemtrails) but does a good job explaining about the moon landing hoax. (plus two he made up concerning phone books and bottled water)

Clavius Moon Base
This site is the most informative and in-depth one I've found thus far regarding the moon landings.
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From:deckardcanine
Date:September 6th, 2008 08:54 pm (UTC)
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Moon-landing-hoax conspiracy theorists are an idiot.

That's right! They're all the same idiot! And not just some guy running around changing costumes, either. They are one soul with thousands of bodies!

...Say, does that make me a conspiracy theorist conspiracy theorist? A conspiracy theorist squared?
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