New cartoons! - The online computery journal thingy of a turtle

Do nazifurs really exist or did you just make this up? :)

I find the concept of a "nazifur" to be the biggest oxymoron in the history of the universe.

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They do. I've seen a couple. They enjoy showing up at cons and dressing up like Nazi officers, or sometimes wearing gas masks. They claim they just think the outfits are cool, but it's my opinion what they really like is stirring up controversy.

As you can imagine, the German furs do not find it funny. (This cartoon, though, they got a big kick out of!)

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They all get off on being offensive, but some of them also have a genuine admiration for fascist authoritarianism that they make very little effort to conceal (even while they still insist "it's just about the sexy uniforms").

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Yeah, apparently not having the swastika on there would make it less sexy, somehow...

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Hmm. While playing devil's advocate for the nazifurs doesn't exactly have me bouncing with glee, I feel I probably should. I've been the victim of enough generalizations in my time, especially about my kinks, that I get really uncomfortable when somebody says "all of X are motivated by Y."

I was really disturbed, for instance, when I heard about that guy (Tiberius, IIRC?) who was planning on going to FC in full Wehrmacht(?) regalia. I admit, I even wrote up a couple of prank ideas in case he needed to be "rendered memetically neutral." O:) But I saw him a couple times at the con, and he read like any other furry happy to be mostly-getting-away with a kink he's embarrassed about, in an environ where he felt relatively comfortable. Since then, mutual friends have vouched that, yeah, he's really a pretty decent, shy guy who's got this major thing for fascist aesthetics and no real interest in the politics. (FYI, the prank I had in mind was dressing up as French Maquis, following the NF's around, and singing La Marseillaise. XD )

Is this an ethically tenable position? I don't know. I know similar questions can be raised about all sorts of other kinks, and I know I've had to accept a compromise: If it remains a fantasy causing no real-world harm (aside from offense), it certainly doesn't have to be liked, but it has to be tolerated. Furry's a lot more comfortable for the weird things we want if we grant the benefit of the doubt.

No offense taken, though, and none meant. *hug* I've been of the same opinion as you about Nazifurs in the past, and I still can't say I'm real fond of them as a general group. The stereotypes you describe, of furries who are just into shock humor, assholery, and power fantasies, are definitely also true of many. (I could tell you some depressing stories...) I just want to raise the likelihood that not all of them are in it to offended, any more than any group shares a single universal motivation.

Full disclosure: Depending on how broadly you want to define "Nazifur," I've been one, too. Sort of. I briefly played a Nazi My Little Pony named "Liebekuchen" on a couple of MUCKs. I'm willing to explain my reasons for doing it if anybody wants.

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I suppose my self-guard against generalization didn't engage because the population is too small. As much as people like to make of it, it seems to me there can't really be more than about ten actual nazifurs. I could be wrong. It seemed to me less a generalization than a reasonable theory awaiting a counterexample. But you've given me that counterexample.

Offense is a tool that is not always bad. But it's something that has to be taken into account one way or another, and which one must take responsibility for. You know how to implement satire. To have "no real interest in the politics" like this fellow is essentially willful ignorance. I think that's as bad or worse than calculated or casual offensiveness, if it's true.

Say someone into rape fantasies decides that the best way to be more open about his sexuality is to walk around in public wearing a "Rape Is Fun" T-shirt. When he discovers that this bothers some people, he doesn't have the ground to act like the people being offended are the stupid ones. "This shouldn't bother you, because to me, it means something pleasant and innocent, and I have taken care not to learn what it means to you!" But you're supposed to know. It's your duty to know.

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Of course, none of that changes the fact that Jewish and German congoers have good reason to say "Dude, this is NOT badass."

Edited at 2008-03-20 08:29 pm (UTC)

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Wow. KT deliberately drew Teleia not-so-hot.

I like the coughed-up swastikas there. And why did it never occur to me to tamper with a gas mask in a similar fashion?

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Shouldn't that be "Heil! Let's make fun of Nazifurs"?

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Actually it should probably be "Vive la Résistance" or something.

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I feel very strongly that the fourth panel of the fourth panel of the second cartoon should show the skunk in the background making a "V" sign.

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