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Nudity - The online computery journal thingy of a turtle

Oct. 1st, 2010

04:03 am - Nudity

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Nudity is harmless.

Well, duh!

Comments:

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From:nefaria
Date:October 1st, 2010 01:22 pm (UTC)
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Probably true, but people testifying in court on behalf of the defense or prosecution can't be considered objective sources of information. I'm sure that given sufficient motvation, the prosecution would be able to scrounge up someone with a doctorate and years of experience who would testify that exposure to nudity causes irreparable harm.
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From:deckardcanine
Date:October 1st, 2010 04:03 pm (UTC)
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"The gay pride parade"? There have been many of those, and some behavior at them is widely shocking even to gay rights proponents. When I read that part, I wondered if the article was a joke, but the gestalt doesn't read that way. Also...

"Casual nudity should not be in the same league as theft, robbery, assault and murder."

Does it carry anywhere near the penalty of any of those? Maybe petty theft, but that's it.

I agree that prepubescent children seeing mere nudity won't be driven to perversion. Anyone with a close-in-age sibling should already know the quintessential difference between boys and girls. Still, I can't recommend going around naked all the time. Not only is it unhygienic, but when you consider how trivial an offense it takes to get sued...

BTW, Paul Okami? If he's a lupine god, then no wonder he doesn't mind nudity.
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From:dv_girl
Date:October 1st, 2010 05:16 pm (UTC)
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'Unhygienic'? ... Compared with what, I wonder? We have this thing called an epidermis.

If anything, I suspect that going about nude might be MORE hygienic. First off, there's a number of problems for the body caused or at least increased by wearing clothes. Yeast infections, rub rash and chaffing, toe fungus, and various forms of psoriasis. Exposure to harsh environments like sunlight and fresh air are pretty lethal to them. Ditto for lots of other nasties.

The vast majority of viruses are done in pretty quickly by sunlight. Even stuff like hepatitis only survives a few hours in the open and it can't penetrate your skin. I suspect men using urinals and getting splashback onto their underwear and then pulling those back up is a greater hepatitis risk than a naked man using the same infected urinal.

Flu is an airborne contaminant, you get it from breathing. Porous materials like cloth with a lot of surface area are probably MORE likely to carry flu than skin. Also, someone with a cold can't easily rub their nose and then wipe their hand on their pants if they're naked so it might actually result in better behaviors and spread less contaminant.

I dunno. I see this 'unhygienic' line every time nudity is mentioned, but I'm skeptical of it's validity. Be interesting to see some studies or at least a Mythbusters episode.
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From:deckardcanine
Date:October 1st, 2010 05:42 pm (UTC)
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I know that the nude gym has disposable plastic covers on the equipment seats....
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From:kinkyturtle
Date:October 1st, 2010 09:09 pm (UTC)
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Also, y'know what nudists sit on at resorts? Towels. They carry towels around with them to sit on.
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From:thecanuckguy
Date:October 4th, 2010 06:42 pm (UTC)
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> Be interesting to see some studies or at least a Mythbusters episode.

I nominate Kari. :)
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From:dv_girl
Date:October 4th, 2010 06:53 pm (UTC)
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I'll chant, "Grant Grant Grant!" *^_^*;


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From:deckardcanine
Date:October 1st, 2010 09:34 pm (UTC)
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Also keep in mind that clothing is a layer of defense against sexual abuse -- and you're probably not kinky enough to welcome all of it. You might think that anyone so determined would get past your clothes anyway, but that's the same logic that gets people to never lock their doors.
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From:kinkyturtle
Date:October 1st, 2010 10:19 pm (UTC)
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First of all, I'd just like you to set my mind at ease that you understand I'm not posting this to say "WE MUST LEGALIZE NUDITY NOW", but just to say "hey, look at this interesting article which has a point".

Second, the "layer of defense against sexual abuse" argument has been used in the past (such as Victorian England) and in other countries (such as Afghanistan) to justify covering women up to absurd extremes: ankles, arms, hair, even faces. Meanwhile, topfree and nude beaches and resorts exist all over the world without turning into cesspools of rape.
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From:orv
Date:October 1st, 2010 10:48 pm (UTC)
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This is purely a cultural thing. Yes, in a culture where wearing clothes is the norm, not wearing them could be seen as a sign saying "come get some." There's nothing universal about this, however. In a Muslim country, a woman revealing her hair might be seen as "asking for it." It's all about cultural norms, which have a way of shifting over time.
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From:deckardcanine
Date:October 2nd, 2010 12:18 am (UTC)
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I was thinking not that nudity would increase the temptation, but that it would make the crime extremely easy. Just because the opposite extreme is worse doesn't mean a middle ground isn't best.

Nevertheless, since KT has confirmed his position, I retract my statement.
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From:orv
Date:October 2nd, 2010 06:49 am (UTC)
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We don't exactly go around wearing iron chastity belts. I think the difference in difficulty is pretty minor.

I am curious why you feel so strongly about this issue. It obviously touches a nerve, or you wouldn't be posting so stridently about it.
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From:alfador_fox
Date:October 3rd, 2010 05:53 pm (UTC)
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Extremely easy? I fail to see how physically overpowering someone is made easier by a lack of clothes. In fact, given the utility in a fight of grabbing onto people's clothes and maneuvering them thereby, it could conceivably make rape more DIFFICULT if everyone were nude.

Having long hair makes it easier to physically assault someone, rape or no, because it's an easy and painful place to grab. Does that mean we should have mandatory jailtime-enforced haircuts?
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From:alfador_fox
Date:October 3rd, 2010 06:33 pm (UTC)
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Gah, I apologize. I just realized how confrontational that last comment sounded. I stand by my statements but am sorry for sounding so angry about them. I'm not! *hugs*
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From:deckardcanine
Date:October 3rd, 2010 07:39 pm (UTC)
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Well, I don't like to stay angry either. *hugs back*
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From:dv_girl
Date:October 4th, 2010 07:27 pm (UTC)
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For what it's worth, the only time I lock my door is when I'm going to be gone for more than a week. I've had my house broken into once but the kid broke a window and came in that way. (The door was unlocked. o_O ) His mother made him give back the stuff he'd taken.

I have been raped. I have been physically assaulted. I have been in a physically abusive relationship. I was walking around with a 'Victim' tag floating around my head for a while. Odd thing though is that all of these happened while I was relatively more conservative in my behavior and far more conservative in my appearance.

As ugly as victim-blaming is, I will admit that in some sense I was 'asking for it'. Not by how I dressed but by not having good boundaries for myself and not being more selective about the sorts of people I was willing to let into my life. Most rape isn't committed by the random stranger, it's by someone you know. Same for theft, violence, etc.

These days, I go places that my younger self would have been afraid to go, I do things that I was told were inviting trouble (like walking around at Burning Man, drunk and naked) I feel far more free than I did when I was younger. The difference is that I've improved my awareness. In all of the abuse situations I had when I was younger, I had a gut instinct about the guy in question but I was so desperate to be liked, I looked the other way until it was too late. I've gotten a LOT better at reading people and not trusting everyone right off the bat. Not just the person that may be a threat but all their friends. People that have known someone longer give little cues about what they really think of that person regardless of what they say. The really interesting thing that I learned in my women's self defense course though was that this even works with the random psycho. (And it's actually true) If you look alert, aware, confident and unafraid, people looking for a victim are not very likely to chose you. Predators go after the weak and unsuspecting. Why waste effort on something that might be harder to catch or might fight back? It's probably hardwired into their subconscious. So, I guess that, just like on the internet, security is only as good as the user.

A good example would be carrying a gun. If it gives you more confidence, that alone reduces your risk of being attacked. The gun is almost irrelevant. Most muggers and rapists are not going to shout from across the street, "I'm coming over there to rape you!" they're going to grab you from behind as you walk past them. They won't give you time to get a gun out of the bottom of your purse. Now if you've trained how to draw it quickly and how to defend yourself with it and how to not panic and look for opportunities, it could potentially be useful but the gun by itself is useless and if you're not trained and ready, it's probably worse than useless.

In response to being raped, I took self-defense courses. Ones aimed at being able to physically defend myself, sure, but what I learned about people and confidence; the psychological part of self defense, was far more powerful.

I think clothes are much the same.

Anyhow... Blather blather. Sorry for rambling on. :)

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From:deckardcanine
Date:October 4th, 2010 08:38 pm (UTC)
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I can believe all of that, except the part about most theft being by people the victims know.
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